Pop star Robbie Williams, the leader of the 90s boy band ‘Take That’ and later a mega solo star, is the protagonist of ‘Better Man’, his autobiographical film. All you need to know before starting to watch the movie is that Williams considers himself a monkey actor. Some screenings even have a pre-recorded introduction in which he tells you this himself. Director Michael Gracey, who directed ‘The Greatest Showman’, hilariously and limitlessly accounts for the rest of the details: the drugs, the love affairs published in the tabloids, Williams' insecurity, and his desperation to be famous.
That need for attention was rewarded with 14 number one albums on the UK charts and a Guinness World Record for selling 1.6 million tickets to his concerts in less than 24 hours. Then, as is often the case, exhaustion and rehabilitation would follow. Some superstars hide their megalomania under humility; Williams protects his tenderness with jokes about being narcissistic while exposing his wounds in capital letters.
In Los Angeles, at the Four Seasons hotel, we spoke in person with Robbie Williams about a film he produces and narrates.
Q: Robbie, with all your experience in the music industry, how has this film project been for you?
“I have been struck by the level of detail, which I suppose is due to the budget. Budgets in the film industry are larger than in the music world. We used to be kings in the music industry, but now things have changed. For us mere mortals, the appeal of the entertainment world is, you know, the seduction, the glamour. I am very aware of the vulnerability I show in this film because fame comes with a price, which is not understood from the outside, with the loneliness and pressures that come with it. Unfortunately, we lost a musician a few weeks ago for that same reason. I hope that a film like this not only educates but also enlightens the younger ones entering the business. I want to warn them because they need to be prepared; if they don’t maintain a sensible perspective, they can fall into the rabbit hole. From a bird’s eye view, the film is a human story. And yes, to a certain extent, my story is not unique. Everyone who experiences a brilliant amount of fame, an omnipresence, comes out of it saying: I am still an incomplete individual. Something happens. The world veers towards you, and you veer towards it. In general, you can’t escape it. If you’re lucky, through a series of self-examinations or having the right people around you, you can move forward as I have at 50. There is a subconscious thought that tells you that fame will fix you because I believe that’s what 90 percent of people subconsciously think when they start: If I get all these things, I must be complete and fixed. What it really does is generate an incredible existential crisis. And as I say, through a series of self-examination and help, you can overcome it. What I am experiencing now, at 50, is at the other end of that arc of what glamour should have meant. And, I don’t know, I still enjoy the applause and excitement, but I’m on my journey in a more namaste way. I no longer apologize, I am healed, healed. I am in a place far from where I was. And now I can live my position in music in a very different way than I thought it would be. I wish good luck to all those who want to navigate the good ship of entertainment. It’s an exciting, interesting, and puzzling life; it’s a life that has incredible things, but there is also something not so great.”
Q: In what way is this film a gift to your audience, to your fans? Do you enjoy this festive season?
- I just sent a text message to my wife, she is wonderfully neurotic, which is great for me because I am impulsive and she is exactly the opposite. I sent her a message and said: “You must knock on wood, because amazing things are happening.” She is in the UK and I am here, in LA, and I kept writing to her. “As soon as you land, bring the piña coladas to the solarium.” That’s how I feel. She is gratitude and appreciation and, for me, she represents the spirit of Christmas. She is the creator of memories. I love Christmas thanks to my wife. Before her, Christmas was just another day to consume cocaine, but I have found my way back and now it is the most wonderful time of the year, to quote an incredible song.
P: This movie allows us to see how being loved makes you vulnerable, but we also see the other side of the coin: your refusal to go unnoticed, which is what turned you into a star.
-Well, I still dramatically need to be loved and I remain dramatically sensitive. I am no longer as fragile as before. My fragility is part of a mental illness. Am I fixed? Not properly. Will I ever be repaired? No. Did the gift of grounding, meaning, purpose, and a different perspective come once I got married and had children? Yes. Without them, I don’t know who or what I would have been or if I would even be here. But as soon as Teddy arrived, the first one, and I have four, it was no longer about me. For a delusional narcissist like me, this was surprising news. We all want to be seen. We all want to be heard. We all want to be loved and we all want good things to happen to us. Where I am on that scale is much better than before when I had such a severe deficit that most days it was impossible for me to live. But that’s where I resided. I am better now and improving every day thanks to my children and my wife being grounded.
Q: How do you see yourself in the future?
-Old age has become a revelation that I am accepting because of everything it has offered me up to now. I would say that my life has changed dramatically in the last five years. I thought it had taken too long to arrive, but it has taken the time it needed. Now, if I take what has happened in the last five years and apply it to how my future looks, the future seems really good. Every year, every day, every month is getting better and better as I become more grateful, sincerely grateful, more authentic, and understand myself better. If you ask me if that would be an interesting movie, I don’t think it would be. ‘Better Man 2’ is not something people would want to see. Therefore, we may have to delve back into pain if this movie is successful.
Q: Many movies and TV shows emphasize mental health issues. Why hasn’t anyone helped until now?
-They did it. In the end, they did it. I was very lucky. I have been with the same team for almost 30 years. God bless my managers; Tim and David. Tim is my support because David passed away. When I met him, he had been sober for 10 years. He showed me the way to be sober, compassionate, responsible, and how to be a man and an adult. They are the reason why I am alive. Other people are not so lucky. When you are deep into addiction and deep into alcoholism, you don’t make the best decisions and you don’t choose the best people to be around you. Fortunately, by the grace of God or whoever, the universe introduced me to someone who was beautiful and whom I admire. I was lucky, and I wish the same luck to all the people who have come after me and who are now in that thicket trying to solve their problems.
Q: What was the most difficult part of reliving those deeply personal moments?
-There is a lot of lightness and brevity, those are the right words, and humor, obviously. But then you come with me to the places I went to. The hardest part of the movie is showing the relationship I had with my ex-fiancée, Nicole Appleton. Everyone else in the movie did something to me, and I’m not happy to throw them under the bus, but with Nick, I was the villain. She lived through the worst version of me, and she is a good person. That’s the hardest part. And then there are things with my grandmother and things with my father that are also difficult, but difficult in a different way. Part of the heart of the story is my relationship with my father and how I felt, but the version you see in the movie is my mother’s version of what happened. There are things I haven’t talked to my father about that are seen on the screen. I don’t want him to go see it.
Q: There are many famous people portrayed in this movie, including Liam Gallagher. How close is this version to the real Liam?
“The way Liam is portrayed in this movie is a 10. Gary Barlow, with whom I used to be in a band, was sent the first script and he loved it. In the movie, I have to speak and think the same way I did when I was 17, 18, and 19. And I wasn’t kind. I don’t like to admit it, but this is the industry we are in and these are the tools we use to move forward: books, movies, documentaries. And they reopen scars. There are many difficult aspects for me and for people. I know what happened when ‘Rocket Man’ came out and the subsequent articles from family members: ‘that wasn’t’, ‘this wasn’t’, ‘that wasn’t’. I’m going to bury my head in the sand and hopefully not get it cut off (laughs).”
P: You talk about seeking help, after the addiction and after all the consequent problems of that addiction. But could someone have done something before?
“No. In the 70s, 80s, 90s, we were a different civilization with a different mentality and understanding. And no one should be held responsible for what we didn’t know, for how we weren’t taken care of, for what could have happened. Because that’s not who we were then. We are just beginning to fully understand mental illnesses and what fame does and doesn’t do to people. We are also starting to have empathy and compassion towards famous people, athletes. All of this is new. And it’s great because it’s part of the conversation. I wasn’t allowed to have this conversation in the 90s or early 2000s. I was even ridiculed for suggesting, ‘Hey, I’m taking antidepressants.’ ‘How dare you be sad about something?’ Now you can say these things and it’s understood that it’s not victimhood.”
Q: Will we see Robbie Williams in Hollywood as an actor without him playing Robbie Williams?
-Listen, we have made a movie. The movie is a movie and it’s a great movie. If that convinces people to leave their homes, go to the cinema, and watch the movie, I will feel great. I want that to happen. But I don’t want to film a project where I have to open a door three times and walk down a hallway seven times. I don’t want to have to do that all day.
P: Robbie, how proud are you of the movie?
–Absolutely overwhelmed. When the director offered me the project and said, “Let’s do this,” I never thought it would actually happen. I loved his idea and I am immensely proud and immensely grateful for this opportunity.
1.6 million
He sold out all tickets for his concert tour in less than 24 hours in 2005, achieving a Guinness World Record.